Rejoice, Guix v1.0.0 has finally been officially released!
https://www.gnu.org/software/guix/blog/2019/gnu-guix-1.0.0-released/
I've been using this as my primary OS for 2-3 years now and cannot recommend it highly enough - Best thing that's ever happened to my computing life.
Now we're just waiting on GNUnet and Hurd ( ._.)
>>1
I always tell myself that I should start using it, but...
Next time I have to install a new system for myself, it will be Guix.
What's the state of Guile's port of scsh?
What's the state of Guile's port of scsh?
No file in the guile-scsh repo has been touched in 15 years so it seems like they're still trying to find someone to do the port.
>>4
Actually it seems the port has already been done actually, and it's just
bit-rotten as is hinted in the documentation.
https://ambrevar.xyz/guix-advance/
https://ambrevar.xyz/guix-packaging/
Hey, this looks quite cool! "><script>alert(1)</script>
Had to try at least ;)
trying to play around with the SchemeBBS sources... my configured debian repos seem not to offer MIT scheme, or at least I didn't find it
guix search, guix install, bingo! I am in love.
my configured debian repos seem not to offer MIT scheme, or at least I didn't find it
https://packages.debian.org/search?keywords=MIT+scheme&searchon=names&suite=stable§ion=all
https://packages.debian.org/buster/mit-scheme
well...
IF you wait for it...
...
this not going to happen!
Is there a straightforward way to get a normal kernel and intel wifi working? I've installed guixSD on each new laptop I buy, but the network driver thing always has me installing void again.
>>13
There should be an option to set the kernel.
Or you could also switch to NixOS. It has a bigger community and may support better your configuration. Instead of guile it uses nix, a ml-style language
NixOS also has a more permissive attitude about nonfree software -- OP might find that to be helpful given the original question.
a particular kind of anon might also prefer to stay away from guix after that political attack piece against RMS that multiple guix contributors have signed
It's interesting that they admitted that their blog was the wrong place to post this, but even though I'm conflicted, I don't think one should boycott the project because of it. It seems to have been controversial within the Guix community too, so that's something.
Admitting it does not fix the wrongdoing though
Splinter the GNU?
And then Stallman freaks and he gets a copy of my source code, does a whole lot of editing. He doesn't actually-- You know, he edits, like, almost all of the copyright headers, but he doesn't edit all of them and he only kind of thinly edits it and then he re-releases it as GNU Emacs.
>>20
GNU Emacs 13.0? (20-mar-85)
by Richard Stallman.
initial public release?
...
GNU Emacs 16.56 (15-jul-85)
(Gosling code expunged
for copyright reasons)
__
Now, this was not the first Emacs that was written in C and ran on Unix. The first was written by James Gosling, and was referred to as GosMacs. A strange thing happened with him. In the beginning, he seemed to be influenced by the same spirit of sharing and cooperation of the original Emacs. I first released the original Emacs to people at MIT. Someone wanted to port it to run on Twenex — it originally only ran on the Incompatible Timesharing System we used at MIT. They ported it to Twenex, which meant that there were a few hundred installations around the world that could potentially use it. We started distributing it to them, with the rule that “you had to send back all of your improvements” so we could all benefit. No one ever tried to enforce that, but as far as I know people did cooperate.
Gosling did, at first, seem to participate in this spirit. He wrote in a manual that he called the program Emacs hoping that others in the community would improve it until it was worthy of that name. That's the right approach to take towards a community — to ask them to join in and make the program better. But after that he seemed to change the spirit, and sold it to a company.
At that time I was working on the GNU system (a free software Unix-like operating system that many people erroneously call “Linux”). There was no free software Emacs editor that ran on Unix. I did, however, have a friend who had participated in developing Gosling's Emacs. Gosling had given him, by email, permission to distribute his own version. He proposed to me that I use that version. Then I discovered that Gosling's Emacs did not have a real Lisp. It had a programming language that was known as ‘mocklisp’, which looks syntactically like Lisp, but didn't have the data structures of Lisp. So programs were not data, and vital elements of Lisp were missing. Its data structures were strings, numbers and a few other specialized things.
I concluded I couldn't use it and had to replace it all, the first step of which was to write an actual Lisp interpreter. I gradually adapted every part of the editor based on real Lisp data structures, rather than ad hoc data structures, making the data structures of the internals of the editor exposable and manipulable by the user's Lisp programs.
__
1. Gosling Emacs was not the first Emacs in C either, I'm pretty sure Montgomery (later CCA) Emacs came earlier, plus there were some so-called "ersatz Emacses" like ELLE (Elle Looks Like Emacs) and JOVE (Jonathan's Own Version of Emacs), not sure of their chronology. It certainly wasn't an audacious idea of Gosling.
2. GNU Emacs did for a while have a mix of files with Gosling's copyright (those were the ones that contained code that Gosling wrote) and files without it (those were the ones that had been written or rewritten by Stallman). Eventually all the Gosling code was replaced and so Gosling's copyright notices also went away. One could claim this is a "ship of Theseus" but that's a hell of a lot different than saying Stallman stripped away Gosling's copyright headers while re-using Gosling's code. The headers stayed in until the code was gone.
3. Gosling Emacs (before it became a Unipress product, and before GNU) was in fact distributed/redistributed by a great number of people in those days. Gosling was completely cool with that as far as I can remember. Later when he sold it to Unipress he announced something like "the program is too good to waste on the public domain". I don't remember if the gratis version stayed in circulation after the Unipress version came out, but it might be possible to research this.
Source: was there.
>>23
i was going to call you out on "being there", but it's the ship of theseus reference that convinced me you're indeed an old timer. apparently in america they used to study the classics, but no anymore.
it's a very recent video that this quote is taken from,
and i get the impression, that some kids were intentionally trying
to get some dirt from him, particularly since it's know that he's bitter about the whole emacs/gosmacs thing.
Guix cucks their moms all gay.
seems to be one of these "libre" distro without wifi drivers
TempleOS is a better alternative if you don't plan to actually use your computer
>>27 templeos vs guix article when?
ballies
Why, of OSes, exist only Windowses or Unices? Oughtn't exist better competition?
>>27
I'll try it in QEMU: https://guix.gnu.org/manual/en/html_node/Running-Guix-in-a-VM.html
Btw, would a GuixSD virtual machine be a sensible alternative to docker?
>>9
SchemeBBS is not Free Software, don't waste your time on it.
>>33
It is now.
https://guix.gnu.org/blog/2019/joint-statement-on-the-gnu-project/
This is so disappointing.
Ludovic Courtès (GNU Guix, GNU Guile)
Ricardo Wurmus (GNU Guix, GNU GWL)
Andy Wingo (GNU Guile)
Tobias Geerinckx-Rice (GNU Guix)
David Thompson (developer on Guix)
>>35
Ludovic Courtès is French, freedom of speech is alien to them and thoughtcrime is the worst crime they can think of. Forgive them, for they do not know what they are doing.
I'll try NixOS in a VM. It seems nice to me as I don't have a complex setup.
I wish something like this was possible with org-mode:
https://fosdem.org/2020/schedule/event/reprod_jupyter_guix/
I don't know if OP is still among us but I too will try to run Guix as my primary OS. I just have to change a wireless card and I should be good to go.
>>27
There's nothing preventing you from using the blobbed Linux kernel and proprietary drivers. https://github.com/wingo/guix-nonfree
>>37
Turns out it's my desktop OS right now. I can't love it more.
https://guix.gnu.org/blog/2020/deprecating-support-for-the-linux-kernel/
Thankfully it was an April Fool joke.
So there’s a #Guix release around the corner (it’s been around the corner for months, but we’ve never been this close!). Preparing a release means writing release notes. And that means extracting the highlights from… 14,045 commits. Ouch!
https://github.com/pjotrp/guix/blob/master/CODE-OF-CONDUCT
We are committed to making participation in this project a harassment-free experience for everyone, regardless of level of experience, gender, gender identity and expression, sexual orientation, disability, personal appearance, body size, race, ethnicity, age, religion, or nationality.
I do not know what ``gender identity'' is. I believe the whole point of this text is to introduce these two words because the rest is absolute common sense. I don't want to be sexually harassed myself and being coerced into playing the role game of someone with their weird sexual fantasies to procure them sexual arousal. I'm not using pronouns or any other words that I've never heard of because you just made them up. I'm not into unscientific ideologies either.
NixOS is better in every other way. Let's see what is their policy.
https://2019.nixcon.org/code-of-conduct.html
Harassment includes: harmful or prejudicial verbal or written comments related to gender, sexual orientation, race, religion, disability;
That means I can't say things like "women are all inept attention whores" or "only a faggot like yourself would believe that". I'm perfectly fine with that. Have I ever said such things anyway? No forced bullshit theories. The clever ones win again.
>>4
Who cares?
>>44
Shut the fuck up and stop /pol/luting this site with your constant concern trolling.
/PoolOfLosers/ types on my BBS? It's more likely than you think.
>>45
I do.
>>46
You are what you are, you don't get to choose.
When I was a kid I dreamed of being a vampire. I walked at night in the streets thinking how cool it was that I was a vampire. I don't remember demanding a law that would force people to call me a vampire. Or maybe, you know, even as a child, I knew I wasn't really a vampire?
Also you're making this thread a very unwelcoming uninclusive space for vampires.
And now that I got that out of my chest, the urge to drink a young virgin's blood is unbearable. I wish I was trolling.
Guix is pozzed, use Nix instead
https://ebzzry.io/en/nix/ - A Gentle Introduction to the Nix Family
If you're not a sheep, you don't need a shepherd.
>>54
and let the daemons roam freely?
>>55
What you must realize is that once you concede the need for a shepherd to protect you from daemons, it becomes the shepherd's interest never to remove the threat to the point where a shepherd is no longer needed, and should the threat ever subside to that level to make an arrangement with the daemons to raise it.
I understand that with guix environment guile I get a shell with everything needed to build Guile installed. Is there some way from this shell to make Guix build a Guile source tree, modified by me, and install the result into this same environment?
Disassembler of software archives for long-term preservation
https://forge.softwareheritage.org/T2430#47485
https://git.ngyro.com/disarchive/tree/?h=wip-dist
Guix Days is this Sunday! Well, you are supposed to watch the talks in advance, and on Sunday the live discussions will take place:
https://guix.gnu.org/blog/2020/online-guix-day-announce-2/
Ludovic Courtès on Mastodon:
Guix has “importers” for half a dozen language-specific package managers…
… but it still has none for #Racket, none for #CHICKEN, and in fact none for any Scheme out there.
Are Schemers not appealed by… Scheme?
>>60
Well, if you use Racket, Chicken or whatever other Scheme with a certain degree of enthusiasm, you're interest in Guile might not be that high.
What does an "importer" do? I.e. is there some reason to use Guix when you can just use the package manager all other Racket and CHICKEN users use. Or Akku or Snow for R6RS and R7RS.
And about Guix and Scheme. Maybe Guix users are not Scheme users primarily, but they are there for what Guix gives them, and Scheme is just how it is made. One day they will do a coup and rewrite it in Java.
>>61
What's the problem with Guile?
>>62
It makes Guix packages of the Racket/Chicken/etc. packages, with all that entails: reproducible builds, multiple versions coexisting without conflicts, transactional updates and rollbacks, etc. I suspect the real reason nobody wrote one yet is that nobody actually uses software written in those Schemes, and for development you don't need Guix.
>>61
Guile is not perfect (see how it fails to implement SRFI-0), but I don't know of any (other) critical mistakes. What I meant was that if you're already invested in some other Scheme, you might not like or care about the particularities of Guille.
>>65
What is wrong with cond-expand in Guile?
Is anybody actually using Guix? It doesn't seem possible at all to use Xorg without a login manager. I like to log into the console and type startx and I don't want to start using a login manager. I only use a few graphical programs: dwm, emacs-x11, a web browser, mpv to watch the movies, feh to see images, mupdf to read pdfs and cmus to listen to music. That's about it.
From the user manual:
Support for the X Window graphical display system—specifically Xorg—is provided by the (gnu services xorg) module. Note that there is no xorg-service procedure. Instead, the X server is started by the login manager, by default the GNOME Display Manager (GDM).
To use X11, you must install at least one window manager—for example the windowmaker or openbox packages—preferably by adding it to the packages field of your operating system definition
It's not a big deal but I find it slightly annoying.
I tried exwm and while it seems very nice, I'm really not sure letting the mono-threaded emacs managing windows is a good idea.
>>67
All those programs you use on linux except for dwm can be ran with fbcon/tty equivalents. Unless you use real graphics from emacs or like how mupdf navigates.
Don't forget guix is a more do it your self and integrate others work more then nix and port*. You need to override the xorg service module here.
mono-threaded emacs
This is false but the now mainline threads is shared concurrency and not truly parallel, if you don't know this you probably aren't at the level needed for using exwm or xwem as a daily drive, much like getting around what crashes c compiz don't remind anyone of this you must get around what stalls emacs.
Before emacs 24 concurrency was """a hack""", observe this xelb comment for a classic implementation.
;; How it works
;; ------------
;; As is well known, X11 is a network-transparent protocol. All its messages,
;; including requests, replies, events, errors, etc are transported over
;; network. Considering that Emacs is powerful enough to do network
;; communication, it is also possible to use Emacs to send / receive those X11
;; messages. Here we fully exploit the asynchronous feature of network
;; connections in Emacs, making XELB concurrent in a sense.Now I do remember that not everything in nonelisp emacs is threaded yet and some of the elisp isn't concurrent yet, so you can get stalls for some simple tasks, what you do for this is multiple emacs gnuservs or frames, depending on what's stalling.
Meh, normally I avoid login managers but with guix I just tolerate waiting 5 minutes while GDM does nothing really slowly. My phone has to run a display manager anyway since Linux TTYs are hard to use without a hardware keyboard so it's not like my guix machines were a radical change.
https://guix.gnu.org/blog/2021/new-supported-platform-powerpc64le-linux/
Guix now runs on "Respects Your Freedom" certified OpenPOWER boards.
As a bonus there are 4 unmatched opening parentheses in the article.
>>70
That freedom is a bit expansive
Basic Talos II Bundle (Single CPU)
Order online for $3,480.45
>>71
Freedom ain't free. The states of america and common wealth gotta be littered with genocide and slavery. Adam Weishaupt aka "xxxillumos666" is not my philosopher. He is literally a larper and probably a materialist as well. Thot EMERALD not thot RUBY ok.
Has anyone been following the fuss on the Guix developer mailing list: https://yhetil.org/guix-devel/14d4ea61-7d4e-3198-6d13-e2a18991aa90@gmail.com/
Honestly embarrassing...
>>73
I won't be using it because of shit like this. If there's a CoC with the word "gender" in it, it's a big red flag. I know at some point, I'll have to stop using computers and so be it.
>>73-74
Who gives a shit about some TERF concern trolling?
>>73-75
The real juicy part is when the developera made this statement a few days ago: https://yhetil.org/guix-devel/87bkyp3day.fsf@gmail.com/, where they refuse to ack the context or mention any name.
>>76
Looks like that link is dead. Got another one?
>>77
Yes, here it is: https://yhetil.org/guix-devel/87bkyp3day.fsf@gmail.com/
>>78
Thank you. I just noticed it was because of a hanging comma, which I should have seen earlier, sorry.
I wrote off Guix and Nyxt when the developers jumped on the crucify Stallman train. This is nothing new.
>>79
SchemeBBS markup is wierd.
>>80
What did Nyxt do? I don't use it because it is webkit, uses those wierd powerline symbols and has a wierd name. Guix remains technical interesting and valuable, though things like these decrease their credibility and makes it hard to take them seriously.
>>80
Looks like the psyops are working.
>>81
It's effectively an emacsen web browser built on CL. It's big thing is use of Lisp as an extension language.
I really like the idea and technology behind Guix, but to me it's shortsighted to give brain-damaged tyrants *more* leverage over the future of computing rather than less.
>>82
Not an argument.
You can always fork Guix if you don't like its politics.
>>83
I know what Nyxt is, I just didn't hear they say anything during the Stallman Saga.
>>84
Forking is rarely long lasting and I honestly don't see political adversaries trading upstream contributions at this point.
>>85
I honestly can't find anything. I withdraw the assertion, given this. Perhaps I lumped in ambrevar with Ludovic Courtes, given how much ambrevar contributes to Guix. Mea culpa.
>>86
Yeah, Ludovic is competent but alienating. He has an unsetteling presence.
Anyone still here using Guix? How is it? Would you recommend it?
>>88
I use Guix on Ubuntu as a supplementary package manager. Things I like about it:
* Relatively easy to add packages to it
* Software is usually more up to date than those available in Ubuntu's package repositories
* Large selection of Common Lisp packages available
* Reproducible builds (completely specifies all dependencies, and gets rid of "but it works on my machine!")
>>67
>>69
I know this is late, but using Guix without a login manager is possible. The main problem is that the default startx script uses paths that conflict with how Guix does things, so you should write your own version instead.
You also need to remove the login manager from the list of desktop services, with something like this:
(use-modules (gnu)
... ; some other modules
(srfi srfi-1)) ; for remove
(operating-system
... ; some stuff
(services
(remove (lambda (service)
(memq (service-type-name
(service-kind service))
'(gdm ; you can add some others to remove, like network-manager)))
%desktop-services)))You need to install all of the packages required as well, like Xorg or xinit. There is an undocumented Xorg service type, but it doesn't seem to work well. I don't have a big X config, so I just use a simple-service of etc-service-type to put a small xorg.conf into /etc with XkbLayout and few other things.
And here is the startx script I glued together, maybe you can use it as a starting point for something of your own:
#!/bin/sh
DIR="/run/current-system/profile"
HOMDIR="$HOME"/.guix-profile
DISPLAYNUM=0
while true ; do
[ -e "/tmp/.X${DISPLAYNUM}-lock" -o -S "/tmp/.X11-unix/X${DISPLAYNUM}" ] || break
DISPLAYNUM="$(( DISPLAYNUM + 1 ))"
done
XINIT="$(command -v xinit)"
XORG="$(command -v Xorg)"
[ -x "$XINIT" ] || XINIT="$HOMDIR"/bin/xinit
[ -x "$XORG" ] || { XORG="$DIR"/bin/Xorg && DIR="$HOMDIR"; }
TTYNUM="$(tty | awk '{print substr($0, match($0, "[0-9]+$"))}')"
$XINIT -- $XORG :"$DISPLAYNUM" vt"$TTYNUM" -keeptty -ardelay 200 -arinterval 40 -configdir "$DIR"/share/X11/xorg.conf.d -modulepath "$DIR"/lib/xorg/modulesI just put it in my $HOME script directory in my path, but I doubt it would take much effort to make a simple package out of this, if you want to keep it with the other executables.
For things like this I found the mailing list (https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/help-guix/) to be of a much bigger help than the manual. Looking directly into the source code can be very educational as well.
Reproducible builds (completely specifies all dependencies, and gets rid of "but it works on my machine!")
Doesn't this conflict with the default Ubuntu package manager? Also, why slap it in Ubuntu when you can just run a distro with it as the default package manager?
Doesn't this conflict with the default Ubuntu package manager?
No. Everything is installed within a particular prefix path (similar to GNU Stow).
>>92
Yeah, but why use Ubuntu rather than just Guix?
>>93
Mostly because the people around me use Ubuntu too ... It's useful to use the same OS as most of your family and friends. That way, it is easier to share things with them or work with them on projects. It's for "social compatibility" reasons.
There will be an online course about reproducible scientific research that covers Guix: https://www.fun-mooc.fr/en/courses/reproducible-research-ii-practices-and-tools-for-managing-comput/
I did their previous course on the topic, that was pretty interesting, so I have high hopes for this too!
really hate how something so basic is marked as scientific research
or is it because being basic and required but ignored for decades it needs to be scientific research
>>93
I want the stable nature of Debian/Ubuntu releases while at the same time, I can have the Guix system within its own division. I can continually write Guix packages for the latest software that can often require libraries that are too advanced for my base Ubuntu system. The reason why I don't just have Guix as the base is because I don't want to maintain a list of software titles that shouldn't be upgraded.
>>96
What do you mean? The issue is that some scientific software gives different results based on the version used, OS, hardware, the weather, etc., which makes it hard to verify the results. Guix helps with this by providing a reproducible software environment.
>>98
i mean just what you said consistent software operation shouldve been the norm for decades and an important foundation everyone forgot existed
instead new jersey won and everyone thinks rust is a savior over formal verification and other methods
guix fails for functional purity but i hate the nix language opinions can very here yet guix has no excuse scheme can be used more functionally and ice9 is much more capable guix is its own environment built off guile and glibc yuck completely capable of reaching the functional purity of nix and better
theres nothing more to say other than those who study history are forced to watch the masses repeat it
>>99
If New Jersey won you'd use Buildroot instead of something like Guix.
>>100
nice no true scotsman
sorry i dont do programming as a job so im not inclined to use inferior software
anyone in their right mind wouldnt be in (((it))) with the masses choices
besides i can only use guix on the gnu operating system not a problem once you understand what that means but those pushing guix as anything else need to be publicly put on display
>>101
Eh. It's not hard to impress other people in IT right now. You can work from home, do maybe two hours of "work" a day, and get paid six figs for it. The hard part is keeping yourself mentally comfortable living the lie enough that you care to show up. That's actually shockingly hard in my experience.
I'm a little confused about why you think the New Jersy approach to software implies a lack of determinism. Panicking after a failed assertion seems like a cheap strategy to achive that IMO.
>>102
no shame or wrath huh
the price of being cheap needs to be paid at some point
theres not a lack but a high interest rate that gets paid in nonsolutions decades later at best
>>103
Sure, that's a problem for the shareholders though, I'll be gone in three years tops just like the last company.
>>104
i meant for software in general and those nonsolutions are still being implemented to this day
if you or anyone else wishes to jew corporations for shekels with known broken solutions thats not my problem