What is more marketable: Haskell or any dialect of Lisp?
Haskell.
Huge amount of activity in Haskell-land.
Huge number of active Haskell programmers and fans.
Larger number of recent books written about Haskell.
Superior tooling (Stack, Cabal, Hackage, etc.).
>>2
I use xmonad and I like it, indeed. However, I'm not sure about many job for Haskell devs. Can you provide proofs?
Haskell tooling is a pile of garbage. It's actually what keeps most from using the language.
>>4
Is it? Cabal is pretty decent as for me, reminds me of Cargo, which is one of the best dev envs nowadays. I actually see that Rust borrows he-he a lot from Haskell.
I think non-C-like nor Lisp-like weird syntax keeps most people from Haskell. I tried to play with it on their official homepage and I understood that if I decide to learn it I'll need to invest in familiarizing with syntax only unlike those standard C clones which you can get into during lunch.
Haskell tooling is a pile of garbage.
Better have a pile of garbage than nothing at all.
Better done than perfect.
That is something that Lispers should learn. Especially the Schemers.
I think non-C-like nor Lisp-like weird syntax keeps most people from Haskell.
The pure, heavily type-oriented, static functional programming style seems to me to be much more of a hurdle for your average programmer than the syntax would, despite much of it having flowed into the mainstream in the recent years.
I read that as ``heavily hype-oriented''.
>>7
Yes, some Scheme can beat C with elegance of code, but there are a lot of other factors. Most factors are dictated by market (enterprise), some other by fashion, and probably the most underrated reason is habit.
For example, if I know only Java, I can earn well (market factor), I can feel myself fashionable with Java 17 and GraalVM (fashion factor), and finally I have a habit of working with boilerplate-driven C-like forced-OOP language, knowing no other paradigm (habit factor). If I am not a kind of a person who just wants to know more and is generally interested in CS subject, I wouldn't even bother with Clojure, which is literally in the same JVM ecosystem with Java.
So, this BBS of Lambda Calculus fanboys is filled with a bunch of weirdos, which serves as a representation of Lisp low status in the modern world. Sad? I don't identify myself with technologies, therefore I don't care, but I admit the fact that the state of affairs heavily filters out even people who are interested in the subject since we are social beings.
>>9
This.
I laughed out loud, when I saw that this BBS engine's "libs" are literally text files copied by the engine's author from the Internet.
I understand that some tooling can feel cumbersome and outdated (especially in older languages like C++, Java, etc.), but having no remote library management is just pathetic.
BTW, that's a good idea for Schemers to do something useful instead of spamming with irrelevant "forced indentation" in one of the threads below. Create a Scheme package manager!
>>10
There is one: https://akkuscm.org/
Nice, I'll save it for my Guile experiments.
no MIT-Scheme support
So, our fagmin didn't use it just because he is too special snowflake to develop with usable implementation like Chez or Guile?
Scheme will be added to my favorite code task platform soon:
No need for the rude names. My guess would be that MIT/GNU Scheme was used because that's what SICP is written for. And, from what I remember, Ben said this site was thrown together during a hackathon as a joke.
the site is about sicp technically
sicp = mit scheme
sicp = mit scheme
You mean sicp = JavaScript==?
This amateur website breaks the markup.
Anyway:
sicp === JavaScriptthe site is about sicp technically
Why is this website not written in React with thin API-driven backend running with node.js?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Structure_and_Interpretation_of_Computer_Programs,_JavaScript_Edition
good points sirs the fagmin was having a delusion about the true reference language of sicp
its a common psychosis id say pray for fagmin but xhe is a bsdm demon now
My pronouns are I/me, please talk to me correctly? sorry, I don't have CapsLock to shout out, because I use Emacs!!!!11
This amateur website breaks the markup.
sicp === JavaScript
dont be so antisemitic iucko
It should be
(eq? 'SICP 'JavaScript)By the way, it evaluates to #f.
Create a Scheme package manager!
Be careful what you wish for.
In time to come, there will be a chapter in every Scheme textbook showing how to implement a "simple package manager" using Scheme.
Before you know it, there will be a million "minimal package managers" for Scheme, all incompatible with each other.
This is what Schemers have always done. Schemers cause fragmentation in whatever they touch.
Schemers spend all their time scheming about schisms.
Schemers prefer to dream of perfect minimalism that never arrives, instead of spending time to create a practical solution useful for many.
>>24
Fragmentation happens because there aren't standards that haven't been designated before the programming work started, so people write their own Scheme to their own way. The different implementations need to accord with a specific standard so that they know that they should target the standard. This is the reason why there are revisions to the Scheme language and why people request for inclusions into Scheme (SRFI).
>>24,25 (load filename)
>>25
Standardization should happen AFTER several solutions have been written, as to bring them to a common ground. Starting from the standard is a doomed enterprise, because how the hell would you know what to include, without having actual field data? And why even bother making a standard if nobody bothered to write any software for the problem so far?
So what would you advise, if I/me/she/him/its want to learn functional programming language? Go with ugly Haskell?
> hello, ive stopped doing my super-not-weirdo stuff with my non-weirdo friends, can i come into your house to chat with you?
yeah, what do you want to talk about?
> talk? lol, i dont waste my time with weirdos!
for good i do not know you personally
imagine being that disrespectful
please do not come back to this forum anymore
what kind of people go to other people's homes to humiliate them for nothing?
scheme@(guile-user)> (define eq? ((lambda (eq) (lambda (x y) (not (eq x y)))) eq?))
scheme@(guile-user)> (eq? 'SICP 'JavaScript)
$1 = #t>>29 based
>>27
Revise the standard with a new report of the state of the Algorithmic Language. Existing implementations can choose to deprecate their conflicting functionality when they choose to target the revised standard.
Why not standardize something useful, like how to order pizza?
>>29
You completely missed the point of my post. That's because you are stupid, not because you are weirdo.
nope
the point is: you do not like us, but you insist on going after us
but if you do not like us, why the hell do you come here to say that?
why the fuck are you still here -huh?
i do not see anyone from here going on other bbs saying they are shit
their regulars-users are idiots and bad-things-this-bad-things-that
the schemers are so pathetic, aren't they? so ridiculous, aren't they? so insignificant, aren't they?
now, you have the whole webz to say these things, with all your super-not-strange-and-stupid-and-schemers cool friends
but you come to, precisely, one of the only places where schemers, rare as they are, get together fraternally?
seriously, what a life, huh?
>i do not see anyone from here going on other bbs saying they are shit
ok bucko
>>32
So in the end you still have functionality not useful in practice (because you didn't ever test it), and end up having to revise the standard, but now you've also placed additional burden on the people implementing said standard, for no discernible benefit. That doesn't seem very purposeful.
I have no idea, why you are so butthurt. But that's okay with me, my little west*id "vulnerable" special snowflake.
This BBS is good, because the amateur engine written in technobabble language probably doesn't even have functionality to ban users and remove posts you can call it "minimalism", ok. I can poo in threads as much as I want and you will only cry that you are so "vulnerable".
Secondly, you Scheme fanboys are useful to talk about Emacs and Lisps, which I also use. I just don't behave like a special snowflake elitist because of that. Cry to you mommy about that.
>>37
That's because you choose to miss the point. You've chosen to focus on the wrong things and then conclude that the purpose of Scheme is to have no benefit. There is a purpose and a reason to Scheme and why the Scheme report is revised as time progresses.
Dear Sirs, can you please stop ranting and answer the question in >>1
Scheme is definitely not marketable at all, so I don't consider it for real stuff. Other Lisps exist, though, and they can satisfy my urge for functional paradigm.
>>38
demanding education now is "crying to mummy" lol
thank jesus my mummy gave me an education
and i know that being inconvenient and unpleasant does not do anybody any good
>>40
Haskell is pretty fashionable. Lisp? Nobody cares about it.
You are such a blind Scheme fanboy that you can't bear even a moderate critique of your fanboy dialect. Interesting species.
Haskell clicked for me after I finished several basic katas on Codewars in parallel with Clojure. It's essentially Lisp without brackets and with other weird syntax choices.
Nevertheless, I was advised on the /emg/ that Clojure is the most marketable Lisp and more marketable than Haskell. It's ecosystem is quite thriving from the first glance. And definitely not:
Lisp? Nobody cares about it.
/emg/
What is that?
>>45
Emacs and Lisp General on 4chan /g/. Usually people in those threads are more knowledgeable about Scheme than locals.
>>45
e**-penis **measurement ga[y]thering
How do you brush off really retarded fans
It's like everybody is living one foot away from the first rank.
Oh wait they just go for someone that looks weak to them.
Nobody looks more safer for them.
Yep officially "club unharitable."
Why UTF-8 is the standard? Wouldn't UTF-32 be more beautiful? It would be like ASCII but Unicode, so it would be better.